Artiste sculptor

Saint Mesrop

Bronze of art - 80 x 80 x 60 cm - 40 000 €

Bronze Prints Numbered out of 8 | Location : Square place of l’Europe, Alfortville 94140

* The Meeting *

This artwork carries a deeply spiritual story (for me). One day in 2015, while driving past the square of Europe-Charles-Aznavour in Alfortville, which was undergoing renovation, a thought crossed my mind:
“What a beautiful place to install a sculpture!”

A week later, as if by some strange coincidence, I received a call from Mr. Philippe Car, Deputy Mayor of Alfortville in charge of Culture and Community Life, inviting me to a meeting to discuss a sculpture project. On the appointed day, I went to the City Hall and met Mr. Philippe Car. During our conversation, I introduced my work using my Press-Book to give him a glimpse of my artistic world.

Shortly after, a second meeting was organized to delve deeper into the idea. This time, Mr. Philippe Car was accompanied by Mr. Richard Ananian, Deputy Mayor in charge of Urban Planning. A proposal was made to me: to create a bust of Saint Mesrop Mashtots for the square of Europe-Charles-Aznavour .

At those words, a wave of emotion came over me, sending shivers down my spine, as it echoed the exact thought I had had a week earlier while driving past that very square. My first reaction was to point out that a life-size bust might be lost in the vastness of the space; it needed to be created at a larger scale (at least twice its normal size) in order to be truly visible.

Mr. Philippe Car then informed me that the budget might not allow for such a project. Instinctively, I replied that this was not a problem: I would be happy to offer part of my work as a contribution. At that very moment, the faces of the city officials lit up. And it was then that I had a vision of the bust of Saint Mesrop, just as it stands today in the square of Europe-Charles-Aznavour.

I then suggested an alternative: instead of a bust twice as large, we could opt for a 1.30 scale version, showing a torso in motion, with both arms visible. And so began this adventure, blending intuition, personal commitment, and spiritual inspiration.

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* The Search for the Face of Saint Mesrop *

After our agreement, one essential question arose:
“What did Saint Mesrop Mashtots actually look like?”

I undertook thorough research, exploring various archives, eventually reaching “The Matenadaran”, the largest library of ancient manuscripts in Armenia. There, I received a crucial confirmation:
There exists no physical description or representation of Saint Mesrop Mashtots.

Even Koriun, his disciple, who wrote his biography in 405 AD, elaborates at length on his work, commitment, and legacy — but never once mentions his physical appearance or personality.

Faced with this complete absence of representation, I chose to embody my own vision of Saint Mesrop Mashtots — a vision born during my meeting at the City Hall, deeply rooted in my intuition and the symbolic nature of the location where his bust would be installed.

Thus, I created the Armenian face of my vision at the crossroads of East and West, a harmonious synthesis of both influences. For a piece destined to be installed in a square named “Europe-Charles-Aznavour” this approach seemed not only relevant but perfectly in line with the spirit of the place.

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* The Creation *

First, I sculpted a preliminary model of Saint Mesrop Mashtots’ torso to present to the Alfortville City Council. This time, the meeting included Mr. Luc Carvounas, the Mayor of Alfortville, who initiated the project.

This initiative carried deep symbolism, as explained by the Mayor: the city of Alfortville is twinned with the city of Oshakan in Armenia, where Saint Mesrop Mashtots is buried. After our exchange, the City Hall officially gave its approval for the creation of the work.

I then began my work, which required no less than 280 kg of clay to model the saint’s torso.

The journey, both magical and spiritual, did not stop there. During the creative process, extraordinary events occurred, what I like to call:
“The Gifts”

Every morning, while sharing an oriental coffee with my mother, incredible surprises would appear. Without even turning over the coffee cup (as is sometimes done), simply by observing the patterns left by the grounds on the inner walls, fascinating images would emerge: Mount Ararat, Armenian churches, and one day, the silhouette of the very torso I was sculpting.

To me, this was both marvelous and deeply moving.

And so, the magic continued, day after day…

Saint Mesrop, emerging from Armenian soil, faces his parchment laid on an oak log, drawing inspiration from Mount Ararat, which stands behind him, for the creation of the Armenian alphabet. His head turns to the left, while his raised hand points toward Mount Ararat, symbolizing his spiritual and intellectual connection to this emblematic Armenian symbol. His right hand transcribes the letters of the Armenian alphabet. Since Mount Ararat isn’t physically present in the square, an idea came to me spontaneously: I integrated it directly into the forehead of Saint Mesrop Mashtots, as a symbolic wrinkle. In the days that followed, further symbolic inspirations emerged. I decided to evoke Mount Ararat again, this time on his chest, near the heart, by inscribing the name Mesrop Mashtots. In the Western alphabet, the letter “M” resembles the silhouette of Mount Ararat, whose two peaks naturally form that iconic shape of “M”.

Saint Mesrop Mashtots was born on the western side of Mount Ararat (formerly Great Armenia) and died in eastern Armenia, on the other side of the mountain. This is why the two “M”s in his name appear as mirrored forms of Mount Ararat.

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* References *

L’Inauguration
You can watch the 2015 video of the inauguration of the bust of Saint Mesrop Mashtots in the square of Europe-Charles-Aznavour in Alfortville here.

Press Coverage:
• Le MAG
• Val-de-Marne-Infos
• Nouvelles d’Arménie magazine

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* Word of gratitude *

I would like to express my heartfelt thanks to the Mayor of Alfortville, Mr. Luc Carvounas, for his initiative, which enabled such an extraordinary project to come to life. I also warmly thank Mr. Philippe Car, Mr. Richard Ananian, and the entire municipal team for their support and contribution.

Love and Resilience

Bronze of art - 80 x 60 x 50 cm - Offered

Bronze Prints Numbered out of 8 | Location : Square Gabriel Meynet, Alfortville town hall 94140

*My proposal to the City of Alfortville*

Love and Resilience is a theme born in my mind to symbolize understanding and harmony between peoples, as well as respect for nature. This theme has held a very special place in my heart for a long time, and I have always wished for this message to be passed from children to parents. That is why I chose to install it in a playground, a place dedicated to childhood.

I therefore arranged a meeting with the Mayor of Alfortville (94140), Luc Carvounas.

Our meeting was positive. We agreed on the location of the sculpture as well as on the financing of a bronze casting and the pedestal, which would be covered by the municipality. As for the cost of creating the artwork itself, I offered it to the municipality for one bronze casting.

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*History of the theme and the creation of the artwork*

170 kg of clay were required to create this theme filled with meaning, symbols, and love. The two children of the world (Western and Afro-Oriental), as can be seen, are both tender and thoughtful, as they have a message to convey to their parents. Their gaze is also directed in the same direction as that of the parents. For this reason, they are not depicted as very joyful, but only slightly smiling.

With their arms around each other, a ball representing the world is also placed as a gesture of unity, resting in the joined hands of the children.

On the ball, oriented toward the parents’ gaze, appears this message: “LOVE, RESPECT, HOPE, RESILIENCE”. The heart is also represented on the Earth-ball, on the chest of each child, as well as a small circle on both of their chests symbolizing the world. One can also find, on the little girl’s sandals, a four-leaf clover symbolizing “Luck”.

*References*

The creation and the inauguration

To see the detailed creation process and the day of the inauguration, please visit my YouTube channel.

This work is also presented in my portfolio – Career Path.

Press Book: Le MAG

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*Words of thanks*

I would like to thank the Mayor of Alfortville, Mr. Luc Carvounas, for kindly accepting this humanist sculpture and its symbolic theme, Love and Resilience.

Ar’home

Siliceous Portuguese Pink Marble - 130 x 70 x 50 cm - 50 000 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand | Location: Chem. Lateral, 94140 Alfortville

*Concept of the artwork Ar’home*

The idea for this artwork came from a commission placed by OGIC, a new real estate developer, who wanted a work of art for the garden of the residential complex built in Alfortville (94140). They therefore issued a call to a local sculptor from Alfortville.

Honored by this commission, I was given complete freedom of creation. The residence is called “Ar’home,” an interesting play on words. Knowing as well that the residence would include a beautiful park with various aromatic plant scents, I came up with the following idea: the image immediately came to me of an abstract sculpture representing a healthy child, lying on their stomach, smelling an arum, a flower of great elegance. There is also a second arum, this time in bas-relief.

The overall shape of the sculpture evokes a slide, potentially allowing young children to have fun sliding on it, and there is absolutely no risk of injury, as the sculpture is rounded on all its surfaces.

The two sides of the sculpture are not identical. On the left side, at the level of the hip, there is a hollow recalling the shape of a head, which symbolizes the “Home”, the house. Inside, one can make out four figures: the mother, the father, and two children.

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*The Marble*

The marble is a siliceous and very hard pink marble from Portugal. The entire piece is sculpted by eye, freehand, using chisels and rifflers… No electric machines.

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*References*

This work is also presented in my portfolio – Career Path

Mystery

Stone - 30 x 30 x 30 cm - 8 500 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

A photophore that represents life and the union of human beings, all cultures and religions combined!

It is a work of creation in a unique piece with a theme. Sculpture made in direct and freehand carving in a cut stone. It is possible to reproduce it in stone in a unique piece, in numbered art bronze, in resin, in plaster, etc.

This work reveals, in its upper part with the “M”, the absolute mystery of existence, an enigma forever, in my opinion.

One of its faces suggests a shell, recalling water, the primordial source of life.

Another surface evokes the tree of life, symbol of oxygen and vitality.

Another dimension of the work celebrates the strength of the living through the figure of a mother, surrounded by waves, her legs rooted like a tree bearing fruit. Her body, of a dazzling femininity, reveals her undulating hair, her nourishing chest. She carries within her the promise of the future: a baby in the shape of a fetus hung on her breast.

Finally, the last side explores the deep connection between human beings through the spiritual prism. Since the troglodyte, and surely well before, rises the cycle of the evolution of beliefs and spirituality. The sun, the tablets of the Ten Commandments, a church, a mosque, a pagoda, etc … symbols of religions.

“Mystery” is a hymn to life!

Irresistible

Marble - 30 x 18 x 18 cm - 5 500 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Irresistible represents a man and a woman, back to back, who wish to separate, yet remain powerfully drawn to one another and come together at the level of their heads. Moreover, the man has lost his head – the entire composition is engulfed in flame, symbolizing passionate love. At the center is the Ténéré, representing the desert that separates them.

At the bottom is a well, the well of love.

When a small candle is placed on the well and the light is turned off, the movement of the flame makes the dunes of the Ténéré ripple, creating a mirage effect.

Questioning

Stone - 25 x 15 x 8 cm - 8 500 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Interrogation is a themed creative artwork, in a unique piece, semi figurative in abstraction. Sculpture made from a beautiful cut stone Lavoux. Directly carved, freehand, sculpted entirely by hand using scissors, rifflers, chisels, etc. This piece of art can be reproduced in numbered art bronze, resin, plaster etc.

It represents the painful theme of divorce, the separation of a couple despite all the love they had for one another! On this art piece there is the number 2, which also represents a question mark, however, it signifies the body of a man. The woman seen from behind is snuggled up against the chest of the man who is brooding over her. The woman’s body seen from behind also represents the rump of a horse with its saddle. This time it is the man who is carried by the woman.

God

Self hardening modeling clay - 30 x 20 x 15 cm - Reserved

Low Relief Unique Piece

For this sculpture, I leave it to you to search and discover. One clue, however: this time the work is a nod to the Christian religion. Look into the eye, it is very obvious and figurative.

Do not hesitate to contact me for further explanations or simply to share your point of view and your interpretation of this sculpture.

Dialogue

Stone - 30 x 30 x 20 cm - 2 500 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Femininity

Stone - 20 x 30 x 30 cm - 1 800 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Brutus

Siliceous Carrara marble - 45 x 25 x 25 cm - 40 000 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Brutus is the subject of my competition piece for the title of Meilleur Ouvrier de France (MOF).

See my Brutus on my career path page.

The Foot of Alexander in terracotta

Terracotta - 35 x 12 x 25 cm - 4 000 €

Unique Piece

The eye of the master in stone

Stone - 30 x 14 x 10 cm - 5 500 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

This work represents Michelangelo Buonarroti, my Master in sculpture.

Here, only the left eye is visible.

A little wink, it’s my dominant eye, the aiming eye.

The Hand of the Master

Stone - 25 x 15 x 15 cm - 5 500 €

Unique Piece

Carved directly from a block of building stone, observing only my own hand, with no use of photographs or casting.

Portrait of my hand.

This sculpture, imbued with compassion, carries a profound double meaning.

Like a hand emerging from quicksand, it calls for help in a silent cry.
But it can also be seen as an anchor, a hand extended, ready to catch what is falling, to offer support and hope.

Aznavour

Reproduction in Plaster - 13 x 10 cm - 250 €

Low Relief Plaster Prints Numbered out of 8

Fragment of the sculpture “Monumental Aznavour”!

This piece is linked to “Monumental Aznavour” on my career path page:

“Tribute to Mr. Charles Aznavour

Presentation of the sculpture Monumental Aznavour to Mr. Charles Aznavour for his 80th birthday (bas-relief portrait carved in stone).
Meeting with Mr. Charles Aznavour backstage at the Palais des Congrès after the dress rehearsal.”

Monumental Aznavour represents Aznavour’s professional journey.

Here, I used a block of building stone along which runs a long brass wire, starting behind the stone at the bottom with an embryo. It then turns toward the front of the stone, at the bottom, into a hollow of a wave marked with the number 20, representing the artist’s difficult years. It then follows a spiral path, symbolizing the beginning of success. This is followed by an explosion, crowned by a treble clef.

In addition, I engraved on the stone the inscription: “Je m’voyais déjà en haut de l’affiche.”
On the side of the stone is the bas-relief portrait of Charles Aznavour, set in a hollow that also evokes the title of one of his songs: “Et moi dans mon coin.”

The Well of Life

Terracotta - 20 x 30 x 20 cm - 3 500 €

Unique Piece

the Citadel

Old Oak Wood - 50 x 40 x 20 cm - 9 000 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Stephanie

Terracotta - 15 x 10 x 10 cm - 3 500 €

Unique Piece

Sun tanning

Terracotta - 20 x 10 x 10 cm - 500 €

Unique Piece

Arabian Thoroughbred

Linden Wood - 20 x 20 x 10 cm - 10 000 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

The Veteran Boxer

Terracotta - 30 x 20 x 20 cm - 3 500 €

Unique Piece

The Businessman

Terracotta - 30 x 20 x 12 cm - 2 500 €

Unique Piece

The Madonna

Terracotta - 30 x 30 x 20 cm - 2 500 €

Unique Piece

Mr Faivre

Copy in Plaster - 45 x 40 x 30 cm - Reserved

Plaster Prints Numbered out of 8

Henri Mondor

Patinated Terracotta - 45 x 30 x 20 cm - 10 000 €

Unique Piece

The Survivor Mom

Copy in Numbered Plaster - 45 x 35 x 30 cm - 3 000 €

Plaster Prints Numbered out of 8

The Athlete

Stone - 20 x 15 x 15 cm - Reserved

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

The Female Trunk

Stone - 20 x 10 x 8 cm - 1 800 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Friend and Guide

Terracotta - 20 x 15 x 10 cm - 4 500 €

Unique Piece

Elephant

Copy in Plaster - 30 x 30 x 15 cm - Reserved

Plaster Prints Numbered out of 8

Toraja Buffalo Sacrifice

Patinated Terracotta - 35 x 18 cm - 2 200 €

Low Relief Unique Piece

House of the Toraja ethnic group

Terracotta - 40 x 18 cm - 2 000 €

Low Relief Unique Piece

An Indonesian Fisherman

Patinated Terracotta - 35 x 20 cm - 1 500 €

Low Relief Unique Piece

The Indonesian Pipe Smoker

Patinated Terracotta - 35 x 20 cm - 2 500 €

Low Relief Unique Piece

The Indonesian Woman with ovals

Patinated Terracotta - 35 x 20 cm - 2 500 €

Low Relief Unique Piece

Woman with Umbrella

Patinated Terracotta - 35 x 20 cm - 3 500 €

Low Relief Unique Piece

Mary

Plaster - 45 x 40 x 10 cm - 600 €

Low Relief Plaster Prints Numbered out of 8

Rosy

Plaster - 20 x 15 x 5 cm - 500 €

Low Relief Plaster Prints Numbered out of 8

Argentine Tango

A Single Uncut Brass Wire - 45 x 30 x 15 cm - Reserved

Unique Piece

Maya the Bee

A Single Uncut Brass Wire - 20 x 30 x 20 cm - Reserved

Unique Piece

Deir Ezzor The Exodus

Plaster - 60 x 45 x 10 cm - 1 200 €

Low Relief Plaster Prints Numbered out of 8

This powerful and poignant work evokes the tragic exodus of Armenians during the 1914 genocide, across the vast arid expanses of the Deir Ezzor desert. It is an imprint of memory, a testimony sculpted in pain and resilience.

On each side, the desert stretches out, implacable and silent, a mute witness to wandering and suffering. In its center, the Euphrates, bearer of life, here becomes a funereal river, carrying the bodies of thirsty and hungry martyrs, and some massacred. Its impassive current carries the weight of the drama, mixing water with the memory of the blood shed.

On the upper right bank, a cemetery emerges, a sanctuary for departed souls. This is where the victims rest, deposited one by one after crossing the bridge of the exodus. At the bottom right, a funeral cart, a frail vehicle of destiny, transports the bodies beyond the threshold of life, in a silent procession towards eternity.

At the heart of the work, a symbol emerges: the cross, a figure of Armenian Christianity, erected as a final landmark in the tumult of disappearance. From its side flows a drop of blood, a tear frozen in matter, a vibrant reminder of sacrifice and martyrdom.

Giraffe Woman

Patinated Terracotta - 35 x 20 cm - 2 500 €

Low Relief Unique Piece

Tuareg Woman

Patinated Terracotta - 10 x 7 x 7 cm - 400 €

Unique Piece

Horse

Patinated Terracotta - 12 x 7 x 7 cm - 300 €

Unique Piece

White Bear

Northern fir - 15 x 10 x 10 cm - 900 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Slavic Princess

Terracotta - 13 x 8 x 7 cm - 700 €

Unique Piece

After Bath

Terracotta - 10 x 7 x 7 cm - 400 €

Unique Piece

The Wait

Terracotta - 30 x 20 x 15 cm - 900 €

Unique Piece

The 3 graces in patinated terracotta

Patinated Terracotta - 35 x 25 x 20 cm - 3 300 €

Unique Piece

The desert rose

Stone - 18 x 15 x 15 cm - 2 200 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Tealight holder

Stone - 20 x 20 x 10 cm - Offered

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

The 3 graces in terracotta

Terracotta - 35 x 25 x 20 cm - 1 200 €

Unique Piece

The beauty of the V th

Stone - 20 x 25 x 10 cm - Offered to M. Tibéri

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Parrot

Stone - 35 x 25 x 15 cm - Reserved

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Hearth

Stone - 35 x 15 x 15 cm - 3 500 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Hearth – The Soul of the Family

Hearth is an abstract work. Each side reveals an essential facet of human and emotional structure.

On one side, the keyhole to home, a symbolic door of belonging and inner warmth. Then, at the corner, the slender figure embodying the mother, the heart of the home, a silent pillar that supports and envelops.

Another side represents the child, the round opening suggests its head and also the interior of the home (the soul), while the rest of the shape evokes the body.

Waiting

Stone - 30 x 10 x 13 cm - Sold

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Arc Couple

Stone - 18 x 10 x 10 cm - 900 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Pride and Humility

Stone - 45 x 25 x 20 cm - 7 500 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Pride and Humility is a unique piece of creative artwork: stylized, design, aesthetic, semi-figurative and in abstraction. The sculpture is directly carved and freehand in cut stone. This piece of art can be reproduced in stone as a unique piece, numbered art bronze, resin, plaster etc.
The woman straightens her torso and at the same time lowers her head. The man just behind her stands proudly like a protective cobra, but lowers his head into the woman’s breasts.

The Armenian

Stone - 35 x 25 x 16 cm - 3 800 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

The Armenian woman, guardian and bearer of sacred waters, source of life and memory. Her absent face invites contemplation of inner strength and the mystery of the soul. Around her, the lion and the horse stand watch as symbols of protection and loyalty.

The lion, embodiment of bravery, and the horse, companion of freedom, frame her walk toward life. Together, they form a circle of power and love, an eternal echo of Armenian resilience.

Venice

Stone - 25 x 20 x 10 cm - 3 300 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Mermaid

Stone - 35 x 30 x 12 cm - 4 200 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Portrait of Varoujan

Wood - 35 x 20 x 15 cm - Reserved

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Directly carved in an old peice of oak wood

Alexander’s foot in marble

Marble - 35 x 12 x 25 cm - 60 000 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Pure White Carrara Marble

Freehand reproduction, with chisels, of a fragment of the fresco “Visit of Alexander to Diogenes” by P. Puget.

See Alexander’s Foot on my achievements page.

Laury

Terracotta - 30 x 30 x 20 cm - 2 800 €

Unique Piece / Portrait of Laury

Laury is a dancer.

Here, like a goddess, she meditates after her bath.

Important note: this is a full-body sculptural portrait, created from a live model posing.

The eye of the master in bronze

Bronze of art - 30 x 14 x 10 cm - 2 400 €

Bronze Prints Numbered out of 8

This work represents Michelangelo Buonarroti, my Master in sculpture.

Here, only the left eye is visible.

A little wink, it’s my dominant eye, the aiming eye.

Diving

Stone - 5 x 20 x 10 cm cm - Sold

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Diving – A Tribute to Love and Balance

In Diving, love is embodied in a sculptural dance where two souls face each other, united in perfect harmony. The feminine figure, all curves and delicacy, expresses the aesthetics of grace and sensitivity. In opposition, the side of the diving embodies the strength and momentum of the masculine, a powerful movement that resonates like a vital breath.

Both observe each other, respond to each other, complement each other. They form only a visual dialogue where elegance meets impulse, where softness balances with energy, in a moment suspended between momentum and contemplation FOR UNION.

Dance

Stone - 18 x 10 x 8 cm - 800 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

An abstract work full of movement and curves.

I love when my sculptures dance and manage to stir the hearts , delight the eyes, and awaken the senses.

Exotic couple

Stone - 12 x 14 x 4 cm - Sold

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Love, tenderness, and exoticism in pure lines.

Rockers

Stone - 12 x 14 x 4 cm - 1 600 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

The couple is in the dynamic of LOVE. Here, there is a contrast between the man and the woman.

The man has long hair, and the woman is like a faceted jewel – a diamond for her Beloved.

(And not her lover)

Romantic couple

Stone - 12 x 14 x 4 cm - 2 500 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

The romantic couple represents modernity and design, yet remains rooted in respect, love, and gentleness.

Liberty

Stone - 35 x 40 x 12 cm - 6 500 €

Unique Piece / Direct Carving / Freehand

Liberty is a themed creative work, a unique stylized piece that is design-oriented, aesthetic, semi-figurative, and abstract. The sculpture is made from a very fine-grained building stone of exceptional quality. It is carved in direct carving and freehand, entirely by hand using chisels, rifflers, gravers, etc. It can also be reproduced as numbered art bronze, plaster, resin, and other materials.

Liberty represents walking, flight, and swimming. There is a bird in the clouds; seen from another angle, the bird transforms into a dolphin in the waves. One can also see a fish, an elephant’s head, a buffalo’s head in the clouds, a human profile… different forms that merge into one another. Everything is abstract so that, depending on the angle and point of view, it can transform into something else.